I often wonder sometimes how I would have reacted if the shoe was on the other foot - that being, that, if one night, my wife would have come to bed, got under the sheets and surprised me wearing Men's Briefs and genitalia to compliment them. Could I be ok with that, if it were me?Lets take it a step further and add in Male hormones, a boy hair cut, facial hair and she would now like YOU to address her, as "him" - a "man" named Bob.
I have talked with hundreds of M2F cross dressers and transsexuals, and one of the things that I find that most (but not all) have overwhelmingly in common, is that they identify as heterosexual, or Trans-Lesbian. I wonder how any of these people (or anyone, for that matter) would feel if their wife came home and said, “I think I am man”.
If you’re Transgendered, try to imagine for one second that your not. Now imagine your beautiful wife that you fell in love with - and all her femininity that balances your masculinity, is now being offset by her’s. Think about your first company picnic, where you bring your wife and all your co-workers and even your boss is first exposed to your “spouse”, Bob. Could you deal with having to be forced to appear as a homosexual Gay man?
Better question: Could you perform sexually and stay committed emotionally to a man. I’m not talking about TG issues here. I am talking about if you were just an every day, run of the mill American Male, COULD YOU DO IT? Could you stay with a woman that transitioned fully, Post-Op into a Male? That is to say, that we presume she wants to stay with you, and not pursue a female to live or marry after she transitions. How would you feel when your wife, now a male, goes out and starts getting looked at or picked up by women - How would you feel about her/him taking lots of videos and photos and posting them all over the internet with you or your children in them? Can you imagine that? What if she/he spent all his time online talking to God knows who about God knows what.... while you are all alone in your room... would you question your self worth? How would all this effect your dignity?
These are the things we ask of our spouses when we begin to cross the gender divide.
Personally, I will admit, after thinking long and hard on this question, I could not. This is where I find myself to be weak and shallow. At the end of the day, when the truth be told, I fell in love with my wife FIRST because she was a complete babe! I got to know her over the course of time and even fall in love with her – But it was her Red hair and 36C Chest that caused me to run red lights!
I did not begin my marriage thinking I would transition – I accepted that both of us would get old and grey and I could accept her, no matter what – in sickness and in health; even if that included being overweight, or otherwise. However, it goes with out saying that NO ONE bargains or even fathoms that their spouse will change their gender. So when you think “in sickness and in health”, you never really allow yourself to think that may mean gender variance too.
Maybe its my heightened sense of femininity that makes me shutter that if I was still living as Ted, and my wife Rene wanted to be Bob, how HARD that would be on everyone – Myself included. Of course, living as a Female now, I would be perfectly ok with being married to a man, as that compliments my femininity... {dares to dream} *sigh*
I know this is a double standard – I KNOW I am a hypocrite. Still, it seems to me that being a lesbian in this world is more widely tolerated than being a homosexual male. People can deal with giving into femininity, especially when it’s a woman giving into it – but I have yet to see where anyone “other than Gay men” want to see 2 men kissing. There are no “Guys Gone Wild” videos of young sexy college Co-Ed’s kissing in the shower (At least not to my knowledge). Can you imagine that?... A woman going around with a camera to construction sites and sunny beaches asking men to lift up their shirts - or for that matter, TAKE A SHOWER? lol
My wife has admitted to me very candidly, that if our children were not in the scenario, she’d be gone. (yeah, it leaves a horrible feeling in my gut). But can you blame her? I used too… now… I am not so sure.
In the beginning I used to tell myself “I am the same person, what’s the big deal?” Well, it IS a big deal. Weather you’re a man or a woman, when people get married, their masculine or feminine persona is part of the exterior contract that goes with the vows – and it goes with out saying. A woman marries a man because they expect to live a heterosexual life and vice versa.
Of course I thought about these things LONG before I transitioned – but they just didn’t seem to click. That was, until I had a nightmare a few weeks back. In the Nightmare, I was again my Male heterosexual self, Ted. My wife and I were on our way to a meeting – the meeting was in a dim lit basement of someone’s home and everyone there was a man. After socializing for a few minutes, I realized my wife was nowhere to be found among all these men. I searched for what seemed like all night, asking everyone “have you seen my wife?” – They just laughed, looking puzzled… It wasn’t until the end of the night that I finally realized, the guy with the short red hair, was my Wife, Bob…
-Chloe
Yes I remember thinking the exact same process as you hunni before me and my wife agreed to go our seperate ways during my tranasition. We did indeed love each other, but felt it best for us to break and allow us both to get on with our lives, and make life a bit easier for our children. Sometimes love is not enough to keep you together, and changing the goal posts by changing gender after marriage, is very testing for a hetrosexual partner.
ReplyDeleteI do feel now after a lot of heartache that the split has been best for all of us.
Good luck with your relationship though hunni, and I hope it continues to woek for you both.
Luv, Alex. x
You're growing up, and I mean that in a good way.
ReplyDeleteThat is a great question and one we should all honestly ask ourselves. Even more importantly one that we should answer honestly. I think your answer is more common then most realize. How can we ask others to do what we won't or can't ourselves??? It says a lot about the human condition and what it is to truly accept someone as well as it does to ask for true acceptance. As they say, you have to give to receive!
ReplyDeletePeace,
Shari
Yes, that is exactly what we ask and is a question each of us needs to ponder. Chloe this is an excellent topic.
ReplyDeleteI think I would stay in my marriage. Not because I am comfortable with being seen with a man as my prior self but because, as I recently discovered, I cannot live without her.
But in truth it would be very difficult. I cannot imagine the difficulties I would face, the sleepless nights the agony of going to receptions and support group meetings where everyone was a man. I say now I think I would stay but I hope to never find out. I have never loved a male before though I did "love" a pre-op M2F for a brief while. I was never able to be physical with her nor could have I had we stayed together.
Please everyone, examine this carefully and think it through. Those of us who have supportive wives, this really puts everything deep into perspective doesn't it?
All I can say is WOW
Debbie Dunkle
Chloe, Have followed your recent journey and thank you for letting the community be a part of your transition. Found your recent scribe powerful and intriguing. On the dream all I can say is "Wow."
ReplyDeleteVery best to you and yours,
Nicole
As always, Chloe, you've you've given us something incredibly insightful and provocative. Thank you. I hope this piece incites many in our community to re-examine how they relate to their spouse, with regard to how they conduct themselves during their transition.
ReplyDeleteTara McKenzie Allison
Great food for thought. I have shared it with my wife and another
ReplyDeletegroup. It does make you squirm a little. I have thought about this
before, as I like to say my wife didn't sign up for this when we got
married... she has stuck by me and even supported me in finding my true
self. She draws the line at being married to another female.
Chloe,
ReplyDeleteIt is good to see your posts again, always insightful. I would like to say I would stay with my wife. I too was infatuated with a BABE, but fell in love with my best friend. Knowing what I know now about gender variance (or TG), I would like to say that if my wife wanted to be a man that I would fully support that decision even if I was not a TG, like I said I fell IN LOVE with the individual.
Thanks for the post,
Rylie
After reading your dissent into change I was both agreeing and boo'ing you. Should your wife have been more supportive, I say yes. Should you expect her to change? Hahahahah.. of course not. No, when you say you married your wife for her.. ahem.. carrage, I also hiss and boo. I think you may have also liked her negligie a bit much too? I did. ( I mean mine! I never saw your wife in her negligie, stop beating me!!!)
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I'm not transitioning, yet, so call me a hypocrite, but I'm in that limbo where I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I gotta be me, but I'm of two minds to who that is. A Gemini, with something women have often stroked my ego with. Yet, at 19, I was intimate with more men than any women I'll ever kiss.. and became a raven slut... Ahem.. I'm better now. I was a bottom with most male lovers, and a girlfriend to most of my girlfriends.
At 34, I have learned a few things about myself. I absolutely love pink, and I fear one day my daughter may hate me for her pink wardrobe. I hug too much, kiss and cuddle. I'm forever changing, I'm a devil's advocate, I luv to turn heads, and not one label am I satisfied with. My wife left because I wanted more, and she wanted picket fences. But I had a steady boyfriend when she and I were going out, so it's not like she was without a clue.
My wife did change after our breakup, she joined an Islamic group, and well, she is not the woman I use to know. I don't know how to be supportive of that change, but she has asked little of me in that way. (thought she's opened my eyes to the tiny insecurities and rituals some such women portray).
I am already of a failed marriage, and my dad is in his third. Yet, my wife has to this day tried being a bit more supportive than most I know, but her guarding of my children from the fun such as gay pride, well, that's a bone of contention with me.
ok this isn't a wife bashing email... I think I could be much more supportive of my wife bob, and I am different as I made these connections with who I am before our marriage, and it's evident failure. I am still who I was. So, just as some wives can't accept their sissy husbands, I must point out, I am sure many wives do not accept their masculine husbands either. Welcome to our democratic Canada, where over half of our marriages end up in ruin...
OK. I said it, I'm not very positive about marriage in general. I believe in communal living, that it takes a society to raise children. General schooling helps children connect with their immediate community, and diversity helps us cope.
everyone has their own trials in there relationships. How would you like it if you walked in on you fiance having dinner with another lady? You ask him about it and he barks "I don't owe you anything woman!" ... Only to find out later it was his identical twin? Yah, one of my great uncles had the real 'evil twin' excuse... But sadly, their marriage has lasted over 30 yrs.. so I dunno...
Love the one your with,
and hope your wife is ok with it,
Sissy Shelli
Chloe,
ReplyDeleteThat definitely is a question. I did try and look at this from a non TG perspective, which ironically is not too much different at least for me. Now y'all don't beat me up too bad please.
I definitely see your point, and I would say, that's a pretty close picture of how they see it. However, the responses, everyone is entitled to theirs, and actually our question ,in my eyes, shows whats wrong with society as a whole. We want this to be an "accepting" society, one where we can be who "we" are, and not pretend to be something we are not. We have to start with "ourselves".
So, if I were married and "Bob" got under the covers, I would be shocked, confused, head spinning, and befuddled, but I would not be
any less "accepting". I would seriously have lots of talks and find out where "Bob" is coming from and if that's the way it is, than I'll be supportive. Now, I would definitely have to be careful about the company picnics, as Unfortunately the Military still has "don't ask don't tell". I look at the "whole" person and not their individual parts and just because one of those parts changes, does not mean what's inside has. If we still Love each other, than hey the Marriage is still legal!
My whole life, I have been trying to be accepting of others, and that is the only way I can even begin to hope they'll be accepting of me. Now, if I put the TG hat back on, having been partially through this, still figuring out how to "finance" things, the difference for me would be in the understanding and support. I would not be "as" shocked, nor confused, no head spinning, and definitely not befuddled. I definitely could offer them more support and advice, but the acceptance would remain the same. I can just pray that one day, your "Bob" scenario .......... just won't matter.
Thank You All So Very Much
Jocelyne
Thank you for the note. I am beside myself with what to do today with my life. I have a overwhelming desire to dress as a woman but live as a man. This is very difficult to deal with. I do ware women's under cloths daily and on occasion do go out in public as a woman with full dress. My wife does deal with my problem but would rather not know of all the details.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Kim Williams
[Reply to Kim]
ReplyDeleteAnyone who has been around can understand that. Many of us did it for years. Many still do. Some like me found one morning I no longer could.
Do as you feel.
Never apologize for it.
Pauline
Very interesting Chloe,
ReplyDeleteBeing bi-sexual myself I would have been thrilled rather than shocked but that unfortunately wasn't what happened.
Mia
Chloe,
ReplyDeleteThank you for that wonderful post. I was fortunate enough that early on in the process of transition that one of my friends reminded me that as tough as it is for spouses (for those transfolks who have spouses) to understand what we are going through, it is equally impossible for us to really put ourselves in their shoes. Your essay did a wonderful job of explaining a spouse's dilemma.
In an ideal world, love would conquer all, and our transitions would be a medical crisis that we overcome and go on to live happy, productive lives. The reality is that the foundation of our relationships should be love, but it also takes trust, communication, and compatibility. It is a rare situation when a woman marries someone she knows is trans. It is even more uncommon for them to truly understand what all of surrounding issues are. Unless a spouse knows everything beforehand, there has not been full and complete communication and the relationship is not built upon trust.
So, on top of the fact that spouses have to deal with the issues of sexual compatibility, social acceptance, and familial pressures, there is also the issue of trust. After learning the man they loved wasn't really a man at all, spouses have to wonder what else they don't know. If a person can conceal as big a secret as transsexuality, what is the limit on how big of a secret they can hide? Those questions have to run through their minds at night when they reach over and feel soft skin instead of a hairy chest or a stubbly beard, or anything else that wasn't part of the initial deal.
One of the hardest things I've had to face is sorrow from a loved one after a situation that brings me joy. That is another issue that a marriage will face. Things that are a milestone for the trans spouse are yet another nail in the coffin of the "man I married" to the other spouse.
The optimist in me wants to believe that I'd be able to stay in a marriage if the situation was reversed, but the realist in me understands how truly blessed the people who make it through transition are to have someone stay by their side, "for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, for better or worse, forsaking all others for long as you both shall live" truly are. Don't forget, after transition, one of the spouse's names is most likely different than the one used in the original wedding vows.
Makes you think doesn't it?? I have played this scenario in my head many a time. I could probably live with it, but I can understand very well why a woman rebels to being considered a lesbian when that is not what she set out to be. To much forced, societal, pigeon-holing going on I guess.
ReplyDeleteGreat blog. Very thought provoking. I have to say I am not sure I could say hand on heart that I could deal with it very well either.
ReplyDeleteCoincidentally, I just added the LOGO TV channel to the satellite package I have, and one of the very first ads I saw on there was for a collection of "Guys Gone wild" videos! However, it was clearly being marketed to gay men, not straight women.
ReplyDeleteI know that my transgendered spouse always told me that she would accept me if I was FtM, just as I accepted her as a male or female. But I acknowledge that as an atypical couple, we never did fit gender norms, and most transwomen I know who were married before transition chose very feminine spouses, often those with a strong tendency towards traditional gender roles.
Chloe, you sure can reach to the most meaningful aspects of your journey with wisdom, compassion, and realism. As you have said it's not always about you. Best wishes!!
ReplyDeleteI admire your candor and your willingness to look at how things might feel from the other side of the equation. It's a rare and powerful thing to be able to honestly do that. I can only imagine how difficult various aspects of transitioning must be, for all parties involved, and my heart goes out to you.
ReplyDeleteMy wife has actually asked me that question "how would you feel if I were becoming a man?" My answer, which is honest, is if I were the "normal" guy in the sense that I had no transgender issues, would NOT like it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first came out to my wife, I was prepared for her to totally reject me and we would be apart going forward. I never have had any expectations that she would want to still be in an intimate relationship with me as a woman. To be honest, there is some awkwardness I feel about it as well - not that I am not attracted to her, but of how our relationship has changed over the past two years. We are still friends, although that friendship is somewhat strained since she is not fully comfortable with me sharing things such as what clothes I bought or my true deep feelings (I try to tell her, but she becomes distant). So at best I can only hope that with time we will stay friends and perhaps become closer ones. We will still be parents. But we will not be a "couple" in the true sense of the word.
Interesting, for my ex-wife asked me how I felt (as Monique) if she wore a strap-on with me dressed enfemme and her dressed in female garb with her 'member'. She told me many times how she had 'penis-envy'. Interesting and also confusing for us on the MtF side of the coin.
ReplyDeleteHello Girl,,,,
ReplyDeleteFirst may I say that it was wonderful to see you and the kids on Sunday. Having not been able to see my own grand children,,,it brought me a great deal of joy to have them around for a few hours. As for your blog my wife and I have talked about the very same thing.I most likely would feel much the same that you do on the subject. It seems it is always differant when the shoe is on the other foot.And what it all seems to come down to in the end is who has or doesn't have a dick.It seems to have a lot of importance to many GG's.They don't want you to use it,,,they just want you to have it.Oh well in the end all we can do is be the best girls we can be. I use to remind Melissa about that all the time and right now she is helping me with it as I go thru some troubling times. So be the best girl you can Hon. Love and Huggs Paula
Hi Chloe,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading your writing this evening. For the conversations that we have shared in the past as well as your openness it reminds me of how far we have both traveled on the journey.
My ex NEEDED a place of their own by the date that the RLT was to begin. The start of the actual "transition" was the end of the pervious relationship. Looking back - it's what both of us needed at the time and did very much set us both on paths away from the original relationships that we would not alter.
We talked before about the (N. A. A. M.) concept and your writing above is such an amazing example of looking at your situation from the perspective of Rene. I wish you both well on your future choices on the road ahead.
Love Always,
Karissa Marie
Hi Chloe,
ReplyDeleteWell again you have touched on a very interesting subject that get me thinking of what I have been thinking long and hard about a very long time,I have deliberately steered away from having an intimate relationship as best I can my whole life,really only one woman got me to drop my guard and we did get engaged briefly as well she did know about me when were together last time as we had a couple of goes at having a relationship the second time was when we got engaged but I have to admit I was never completely honest with her about being Transgendered she thought I was only into dressing and I had her believing I was finished with dressing.
I digress a little, sorry my point being to complete my Transition I would need to at least try some time with a male now if that was someone I was seeing and she became he I could not give an honest answer really most likely not though then that's why have stayed alone mostly as I think to progress you need to be selfish and with people around me I find this a difficult thing to do.
I find the same problems with most existing friends also I think breaking away from your male life completely for a time a year or two maybe is best for all concerned and hopefully with time away people can heal from the shock and hurt they feel also the same applies for ourselves we need time to heal from what can be demoralizing seeing so much disappointment from ones you love and you have caused that.
Sorry Chloe a little long winded in my reply but that's how I am moving forward today starting new and hopefully picking up with old friends down the track when time has passed and healed.
Leah M.
That is a very fair question that I'd have to think long and hard to come with answer for. In me any my wife Janet's situation, even with no children it would be hard on her to leave because of her disability. She has psoriatic arthritis, and a degenerative back condition. With her emotional state she would need other care if she left me. We are both Catholic. We have both seen what divorce can do in our respecitive familie's, so we are not big fans of the idea of divorce. The way we were married kind of solidifies the marriage a little. An hour and a half long Wedding Mass where we knelt for an hour of it. With Fr Antekier's wedding homily a good 20 minutes long, with a good amount of fire and brinestone in it. In all honesty in the future when Im transitioned over it would bother me at all if she transitioned over to male, but it isn't going to happen. In the mean time while she isn't thrilled that the transition has started ,albeit very slow. She for whatever reason has asked that I keep growing my hair out and when mine gets to be as long as hers we will do her's and her's hair styles. Still trying to figure that one out, but I'll take it.
ReplyDeleteI often thought of this and recognized my own shallow hypocrisy. Whenever I was giving my wife a hard time about not accepting me, i was secretly hoping she would never ask me what if the tables were turned because i couldn't honestly say i would be any more supportive, if at all. I mean, as I am transitioning myself, i would have no problem accepting her as a male, but I couldn't say that if i were cisgendered (as i know she is), whether i would be the same person and able to accept, because gay male sex does nothing for me. She never did ask that though which is amazing because she usually is very much ahead of me in verbal combat. At any rate, in the end, i dropped the issue and encouraged her to go her own way cuz i felt guilty for even making her try to accept me; it just seemed so unfair to her. I know that if I had ever had a choice in life, I would be a born cisgendered hetero female, married to a man, with kids, white picket fence, the whole nine yards and I know that's all she ever wanted, too, and, for the most part, thought she had. I now feel like i should at least give her a chance to find that for real this time.
ReplyDeleteYeah...I would be shocked...I would feel betrayed...walk a mile in someones shoes they say...
ReplyDeleteHi. I am going to be more of a devil's advocate. You are now completely transitioned. You have found the love of your life. The man that you have always dreamsed of and truly in love with you. Wonderful lover and in every way. He is not macho but gentle. You marry him and have a wonderful life for a number of years. He makes you feel like the woman you dreamed of being. You are the woman in the relationship and the woman of the house. Your dream.It is a thrill to see all of the beautiful clothes and things in your bedroom You are the princess in your palace. He starts dressing in your clothes and realizes that he is transgendered after you have been married to him. What would your reaction be to this world changing on you?
ReplyDeleteIt is very hard for me to put the shoe on the other foot so to speak. Being transgendered myself I accept all others and that would include my wife if she was and needed to be who she was. If I was not tg, I could understand being upset and feeling betrayed as my wife surely does. However, it is tough for me to view things that way because it requires me to think in a way I am not accustomed to thinking. I love the blog however girl as it does make you think and understand the pain. All I can hope is you are able to work it out and I hope the same as well so I can be friends with my soon to be ex-spouse.
ReplyDeleteIt was great to see you and children Sunday.
Hugs, Melissa
I always enjoy reading your posts. You have so much to offer...you're one of the people that matter.
ReplyDeleteDear Chloe,
ReplyDeleteI read your blog and since it came from your gut there is nothing more to add.
However, as far as passing and being considered a women I can speak with first hand knowledge. You are without a doubt a beautiful women. I've seen your pictures for a while and after meeting you in person can confirm that God may have allowed the world to call you "Ted" but there was always a girl named "Chloe" just beneath the surface. The hormones, surgery and whatever have allowed Chloe to be seen by the rest of the world for who she really is. The spots have been removed but the spots were Ted spots allowing the real Chloe to finally be seen.
What I think is happening is a problem I've seen in a lot of my "T" friends. You see yourself through a filter that is horribly distorted. All the images of you are stacked one upon another. The resulting composite will always be biased toward Ted because that is who you looked at for the first (and major) part of your life. The beautiful, classy lady that I see is only one image on top of thousands of Ted. Unfortunately, I have yet to figure out how to remove the images from the data base in your head. Since the microwave will not work with your buns hanging out the door, 30 seconds on high is not an option to erase the old images. Scaring you with your monthly credit card bills doesn't seem to work and even after getting your picture taken with Suzi, you still can see all the "Ted" images.
I'm an engineer by training so I like to "fix" problems. But all I can offer in your case is a simple hug and the words that I'm sure that the rest of the world will echo. Chloe - you are one of the most beautiful ladies God ever made. NO ONE can see Ted and no one cares to see Ted. We want Chloe around us because she is Beautiful, Classy and shows all of God's love that we all crave. Don't let satan use his old trick to pull you back into depression. Your life may not seem all that perfect but to those of us still struggling with who we are, you are a role model that we all aspire to be. And to those of us who aren't going all the way, you are the girl of our dreams (and I know my dream is 25 years too old) but I still need that dream.
Love,
Suzi
You hit the nail on the head, so to speak, Chloe. My wife raised the same issue to me. Aren't we lucky that our wives are so much more forgiving and willing to accommodate us, then us, them. I can only imagine what challenges there are for the TS/TG girls then us CDs and we have our fair share of problems.
ReplyDeleteHugs......Tasi
I have to admit that, early-on, I was attracted to my spouse (my wife)
ReplyDeleterelative to her appearance. However, as we dated, I became much more
attracted to the person she was, and even with the physical changes
over the years, she still is.
One aspect of her has not changed over the years: she is still the
beautiful PERSON I fell in Love with.
Since I became attracted to my wife as a person, the changes that we
both experienced (her personally, and from my observations), did not
change my Love for her. I also know that my Love would not change if
she decided to become he... it is the same person/spirit I Love,
regardless of the "container," and preference for self-identity. My
wife's self-identity changed, a LOT, over the 43 years we have known
each other (in other aspects of her total self-identity); and,
similarly, so has mine. Years of life, and "life-experience"
definitely change people; and most Loving couples adjust.
Unfortunately, for many of us, the "adjustment" is difficult, often
impossible, to make; disagreement occurs, separation and/or divorce
may follow.
Chloe, I assume that in this writing, one is exposed to the "reverse" question from a perspective that the cisgender spouse is not, AT ALL, familiar with being Transgender. From THAT perspective, it certainly is a very difficult situation to confront.
Assuming that a person is anatomically male, identifies strongly as masculine, and knows nothing of Transgender, this situation would likely be very difficult, and/or intolerable/unacceptable (as it often is for the spouse of MTF).
However, if two Human Beings fall in Love with each other... as
persons (and ALL that resides inside)... regardless of exterior
appearance, each may be eager and willing to continue to learn about
each other, AND they may be willing and eager to "discount" the
opinions of others outside the marriage. With such willingness, and
compassion, it is quite likely that these two Human Beings will
survive ANYTHING... as a couple.
It seems to me, that if each person is integrally/personally happy,
each has self-confidence, and there is mutual trust, the marriage will
survive; and it will probably grow from the perspective of "WE,
TOGETHER... will endure, and be happy."
It is really about whether, or not, a couple allows "outside
influences" to affect their loving relationship; and more so about how
they Love each other, as persons/spirits.
Leigh, as you have mentioned before, and I agree, this is about
experiencing something that is SAD: Societal Acceptance Dysphoria;
and how it affects the couple, and their family.
I might add in this example, whether or not, we choose to carry a LOAD (Loved Ones Acceptance Dysphoria) on our shoulders. And, the LOAD is one that both people in the couple bear.
The question then becomes, "what does a couple do with that SAD LOAD?"
It is, indeed, something to think about.
Take care, Leigh; please be, and ALWAYS stay, safe and well.
Huggs,
jami
I think this one of the uncomfortable things that we trans people don’t really want to look at, but it is a valid point. It’s hard to put one’s self in the spouse’s shoes because we don’t want our marriage to fail, but it most cases, the failure of the marriage is inevitable. My ex wanted to be with a real man, one who could satisfy her sexual needs, I no longer was able to do that, I was not a real man. That’s part of being MTF trans, weather we like it or not. We have to accept that about ourselves and we have to accept that our spouses have needs also, needs that we can no longer fulfill.
ReplyDeleteThen, there’s the very valid question of—would we be able to accept the process of our spouse becoming a man? How many of us could actually do that? I’d like to think that I could live with that situation, but I can’t say that for sure. Thinking that you could deal with it and being presented with it in reality, that’s two different things!
Thank you, Chloe, for such an important and revealing post, it’s something we need to be aware of in this journey.
Now I am not saying it is right or wrong to transition while being married all I know there is so much pain unless both parties are ok with it. Me, I am transitioning on my own and I refuse to date because I do not wish to break anyone’s heart. When I was married she accepted me 100% but I wasn’t out but I was female too and we made it work for 10 years. I hope you two work it out and have a wonderful marriage, you only live once so enjoy it.
ReplyDeletexxoo
This is yet another time in which I think that this web site would benefit from expanding your focus beyond simply transwomen and include more — any! — transmen in the discussion.
ReplyDeleteKiva
Kiva, Thank you for your comment, your point is plausible at the very least; could you please elaborate #1 from what perspective you share this inside knowledge of how
ReplyDelete[reply to Kiva]
Transmen think and have contributed to discussion with TS women before and there out comes - and #2, in what way would Transmen add to this perspective? I am eager to know - please share your views so that we can understand you and our selves, better. I hope you will not find my reply at all insulting or challenging - as I said, I am very eager to understand what you know -Thank you.
[Reply to Chloe]
ReplyDeleteWell, for starters, inviting them would be a good idea. People don’t just wander up to this site and start posting — the contributors are all invited by the admins.
And of course, they’re much more likely to comment if transmen aren’t just a convenient boogeyman to be used in hypothetical situations concentrating on how uncomfortable “they” would make “us” feel. This site claims to transcend gender but is very much oriented toward the MTF experience exclusively.
Interesting post
ReplyDeleteit’s not always cool, as a lesbian, to have those straight male fantasies inflicted upon one …
and straight women seem to prefer gay guys …
Yep. I have a friend who is transexual. She is married and has told her wife only so much. Her wife is supportive, but I have to wonder how it will go when she tells her that she needs to go all the way. They go out together, now, and the wife watches like a hawk to see that my friend doesn't get picked up. Its a conundrum! You have accurately described the situation here. I would be the same if my wife had turned to Bob. I don't know how liberal I could have become. Fortunately, our marriage ended before I even came out to her. Unfortunately, our marriage ended for her and not for me. She is now, remarried to a man that she needs. And I will never be again. But, no one promised that life would be easy. You have not reached the age that I have. I had a wonderful life, and when I say "life is TOO short", I mean especially when we try to force two lifetimes into one.
ReplyDeleteI hope you are both able to negotiate the issues to raise two kids the way they deserve to be raised. I think being raised in this kind of environment is a prescription for growing up to be much better and more thoughtful people. I hope they are able to make you proud as mine have done for me.
Loving-leigh,
Leigh
Chloe,
ReplyDeleteyour last blog was spot on. I have often thought the same. hope to see you @ SCC...
Ally Morgan
Chloe, this is a very well done piece that offers a worthwhile perspective on transitioning. It's often helpful to take a "reverse angle" to find new insight and understanding into the perspective of others. You are to be commended for your honesty and willingness to look at an important and uncomfortable issue.
ReplyDeleteStephanie Yates
I think this is a brilliantly written piece by Chloe! I agree with
ReplyDeleteStephanie that these are important issues and an opportunity for us
to gain empathy for our loved ones. I suppose some of this comes down
to commitment level and other circumstances but it would be difficult to be married to someone I am not attracted to. Regarding the social pressures, these would also be huge stumbling blocks to be dealt with. I am not sure I could give a realistic answer as to what I
would do unless I were confronted with such a situation. Take care.
Felicia
Dear Chloe,
ReplyDeleteyour honest and excellently written blog deserves no less than my deep honesty. Yet, you ponder a very difficult thought. There is no correct answer and either direction, such points towards an intimate truth that renders a sad outcome. That is, we opt to remain honest.
No long ago I met a happy couple in CA. She was transitioning. Her young kids adapted to the changes. Her spouse was as well happy for her. They both endeavored the path graciously but at some point it came to a full halt. Their relationship started decaying rapidly. Transition changed all grounds they were familiar with and although the spouse claimed to be happy, she was not. She knew deeply inside that she was no longer the reason for keeping the marriage together. They split, both were in pain and happily at the end, both found a middle ground, separately.
I asked myself the very same question long ago and my answer, my
painfully honest answer was no. I've beaten myself for my shallowness or lack of depth. Yet, although I loved my love of years, I wasn't attracted to other, than the woman I felt in love with. Even the soul that bonded us ao strongly wouldn't keep us together. Then, putting the shoe on my own foot, accepted by default that I was moving alone through this path. The sad part is having to place all that pain in the ones that love, but the same honesty that renders me shallow, honors the depth of my soul. I am who I am and a I take what I deservingly belongs to me.
BTW, your topic has been debated for a few days at the VC. (Vanity Club)
Be well and many hugs to you,
Isis
Well I have great empathy/sympathy for the spouses of T-people, not that I have any answers as to what to do about it. I'm no expert in F to M transgender people but it seems that they avoid a lot of the mistakes we make. The only F to M cross dressers I've known are historical re-enactors, it's something they do as part of a Hobby. I don't know of any F to M s who married as girly-girls and ten years down the road decided to transition. They usually are not stuck with all the baggage we are.
ReplyDeleteI live a relatively grief free experience as an open transgender person. Sure I get more than a few incidents that hurt my feelings, but am not confronted with bold faced opposition. This I seem to think is because most people think I'm nuts and don't want to deal with a crazy person. My wife the supposedly sane one in our couple does get to be the recipient of other peoples cruelty.
My wife on many occasions has gotten hit up with the "Why haven't you left him and gotten a divorce?" question. She's really tired of it. Women like to talk and vent for the sake of talking out a situation. She has no confidants to talk to who don't jump to giving her that solution.
The other week my wife said; "I was near a man and he just smelled like a man, I miss the fact that you don't smell like a man." Although she mean's It, I'm not sure that it is accurate, I never really "smelled" like a guy any more than I do now. She threw all of my cologne out while were dating. When I go to work I use the same Old Spice deodorant still, although after I shower when I get home I use Secret. I now use Poison, Tranquility or Aspen (I think the Aspen is men's) now. I switched from Irish spring soap to body wash. We use Lavender/Vanilla fabric softener and dryer sheets that I figure is the biggest sent culprit.
My wife does not like to be called a Lesbian. Something that I think comes up in conversation with the divorce advocates. There are moments when she has been turned on by me, but will then regret it the next day. She will at moments consider increasing my breast size as a bonus, and at other moments reject the notion all together. She wants to Love me totally but has a lot of societal pressure exerted on her.
All this is a longwinded way of saying that she dreamed all her life of marrying prince charming even if they know that they will settle for an ogre. Well she did not get the prince, she didn't get the ogre, she got a princess (OK, she got an ogress). Even if everything that I do is with her consent I still struggle mightily with how my dreams are more important than hers and it seems that you can't have both.
At this point it may be a great relief to hear that she wants to be Armand instead of Amanda.
Peace and Love,
Samantha
My wife made it clear that if I totally transition to a female she would leave me. I’ve been working on a balance. And yes I'm on very low dose of hormones. In my heart I would love have my brain and body match. But for 4 reason that makes me "ME”. I have a great wife of nearly 30 years 2 fantastic children. A daughter that works in DC (politics). A son that I just moved to Kansas with his wife to be. A business that is very old boy. if I was 19 again and the doctor I saw said something like on yes you are a transgender, instead told me not to dress and get on with my life .LOL times have changed.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much
Anne Upton (simply chic)
Chloe, In my many years reading about this subject, 'My Wife Bob' was by far, the most powerful piece I've ever read... Thanks for posting it.
ReplyDeleteStephanie France
Funny...I was posed this same question from my ex-fiance. But to ask me about m-m f-f relationships is a one sided venture.
ReplyDeleteI think that i would be one of the few that could deal with this situation. You see, I am attracted to both members, male and female so.....I guess i am a little bias when it comes to this question.
Steff